tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4566162782467918402.post777715368568996075..comments2024-03-27T23:52:14.065-07:00Comments on Wrestling with Philosophy : Critical Thinking and Vaccine Herd Immunity Part 1Amitabha Palmerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09302663284135239000noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4566162782467918402.post-31869301859513460912023-10-03T23:16:55.352-07:002023-10-03T23:16:55.352-07:00The site is other than staggeringly captivating. T...The site is other than staggeringly captivating. That is awesome! <a href="https://www.themoviefashion.com/product-category/halloween-shop/" rel="nofollow">Halloween Costume for sale</a>Halloween Costume for salehttps://www.themoviefashion.com/product-category/halloween-shop/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4566162782467918402.post-6485608116969906402021-02-21T22:38:31.793-08:002021-02-21T22:38:31.793-08:00Movers and Packers in Ghatkopar East
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I appreciate your response and more s...Thanks Ami,<br /><br />I appreciate your response and more so, the time you took to answer. I'm sure you are very busy.<br /><br />The point of me asking you the question I did was not to try to invoke or push some 'pet theory of natural health' but simple look at the germ theory logically.<br /><br />Germs and disease and not a causal relationship only a correlative one.<br /><br />I would love to read the studies that you cited where can I find them?<br /><br />KresimirAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18143692975545830058noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4566162782467918402.post-44102184051343098612014-04-20T20:24:29.486-07:002014-04-20T20:24:29.486-07:00Hi Kreshimir,
Here are a couple of thoughts in re...Hi Kreshimir,<br />Here are a couple of thoughts in response to your question: <br />(a) In your hypothetical scenario where 2/4 kids get whooping cough yet all 4 were exposed to it then it seems to follow that the 2 kids that didn't get it had some sort of natural immunity. Provided it was the same strain then I think this is a reasonable conclusion.<br />(b) I think what is sometimes mistakenly concluded from this is that if only people abided my [insert pet health theory here] then they'd be immune to infectious diseases. There are several problems with this: (1) First, we know that the natural immunity rate to measles and many other infectious diseases is only about 10%. The natural immunity is *not* simply a matter of [pet health theory]. It is mostly a matter of genetics (that's why most indigenous populations were basically wiped out when the europeans came: it wasn't their diet, it was their genetics). Perhaps [pet health theory] can *attenuate* the symptoms in a portion of the susceptible population but it will not likely prevent infection. Now this may sound fine until you consider that attenuated symptoms are even *more* dangerous to a population because someone can think they are not infected (because they don't show symptoms) yet be a carrier and then go on to infect the most vulnerable members of the population.<br />(2) Another problem with the idea that some pet theory of natural health will confer immunity is that it is demonstrably false. Along with recent evidence we can use basic principles of scientific reasoning to show this. When looking for causal relations in complex multi-variable interactions the way to separate the genuine causal relations from the apparent ones is to hold as many variable constant as possible while only changing one. In the last 10 years, as pockets of unvaccinated populations have emerged in previously vaccinated populations we have seen explosions of rates of infection of previously eradicated diseases. Suppose one's hypothesis is that a combination of an all-organic diet, exercise, and good sanitation is all that's required for high rates of immunity. We can show this is false because all over the developed world, where nutrition and sanitation practices are optimal and the vaccination rate fell, rates of infectious diseases exploded to levels unseen pre-vaccination. These infection spikes have appeared In pockets of the most wealthy and most likely to be on all organic diets with healthy lifestyles (California, Oregon, London, Sweden). These people did *not* change their eating habits or sanitation practices (i.e.,that variable was held constant), it follows that this cannot be the causal variable responsible for the change in infection rates. The only important variable that changed was immunization rates. Since the dietary and health practices were constant while infection rates changed, we can conclude that this is not a significant causal variable. The immunization rate, however, did vary considerably, indicating that it is an important causal variable.<br />(3) Given what we know about the immunization rates and dietary habits of unvaccinated populations in wealthy countries, the vaccine denier must come up with a plausible explanation for why infection rates went *up* when vaccination rates fell even though dietary/lifestyle practices stayed constant. They also need to explain why (using measles as an example) why a person who has had both measles shots has less than a 1% chance of getting measles while the person who has had no measles shot (in an unvaccinated population) has a 90% chance and they must explain this without appealing to vaccines (which was the only variable that *did* change in recent populations with outbreaks).<br /><br />Thank you again for your question. If I failed to fully answer you, please let me know and I'll do my best to fill in any gaps.<br /><br />Ami<br />Amitabha Palmerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09302663284135239000noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4566162782467918402.post-81342292423870134632014-04-15T17:50:26.879-07:002014-04-15T17:50:26.879-07:00Hi Kreshimir,
Thanks for your question. I want to...Hi Kreshimir,<br />Thanks for your question. I want to give you the full answer your question deserves so give me a week or so to get through the stack of exams I have in front of me and I'll let you know what I think (based on available evidence).<br />AmiAmitabha Palmerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09302663284135239000noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4566162782467918402.post-68563221529589039372014-04-10T06:45:36.184-07:002014-04-10T06:45:36.184-07:00Thanks for the post, very well written and reasone...Thanks for the post, very well written and reasoned<br /><br />I have a question (and I'm coming from a non-confrontationational discussion here, which I know does not always come across with the written word :)) <br /><br />Is the germ theory a logical fallacy?<br /><br />Germs cause disease. Of course you could never get measles without the measles virus so I understand that it is logical and scientific no question. However not everyone infected with the measles virus 'get's' the disease. As you said yourself "Of course a health diet..."<br /><br />I'm always interested in the cases where 2/4 children get whooping cough, how do we explain the 2 that didn't? I know an explanation could be that they weren't exposed to the germ. Is that realistic? It seems like the more reasonable answer is that the 'other 2' kids could defend against the germ and didn't get the disease.<br /><br />So is it the germ? or our ability to fight of the germ?<br /><br />Again thanks!<br /><br />Kresimir<br /><br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18143692975545830058noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4566162782467918402.post-47705351571523240342014-03-24T15:28:24.681-07:002014-03-24T15:28:24.681-07:00Thank you for your response. The flu shot is an e...Thank you for your response. The flu shot is an excellent template to explore issues in scientific reasoning and principles of critical thinking. To date the best article I've seen on the issue is by Mark Crislip http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/protect-yourself/<br />If I'm feeling ambitious after doing part 2 and 3, I'll deal the the flu vaccine from the point of view of critical thinking and scientific reasoning. Amitabha Palmerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09302663284135239000noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4566162782467918402.post-58769994513971548742014-03-21T21:40:14.086-07:002014-03-21T21:40:14.086-07:00I work in healthcare and am pro vaccine. I enjoyed...I work in healthcare and am pro vaccine. I enjoyed reading your article. Some people are pro vaccine yet still leary of the flu shot? Looking forward to your response.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com